Template:Did you know nominations/Northern Rhodesia Regiment

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by The Squirrel Conspiracy (talk) 16:28, 3 August 2020 (UTC)

Northern Rhodesia Regiment

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Northern Rhodesia Regiment badge

• ... that the Northern Rhodesia Regiment (badge pictured) was a multi-racial British colonial regiment with the motto: "Different in Race, Equal in Fidelity"? Source: The British Empire and the Second World War (First ed.). London & New York: Continuum International Publishing Group. pp. 232–235. ISBN 978-0-8264-4049-5

• Reviewed: Konnie Huq

5x expanded by The C of E (talk). Self-nominated at 17:09, 3 July 2020 (UTC).

• Hello, I'll be undertaking a review of this article. An interesting subject, and one that I don't know enough about, although I've had some great experiences with members of the RLI and RAR in years long past. A few things pop out right from the beginning. Your hook states that the Regiment was "multi-racial" but I can't find support for that statement. It appears that it was comprised of black units with white officers (which is not the same as an integrated unit), or that the regiment may have, at one time, consisted of separate units which were either all black or all white, at the rank-and-file level. So if you're going to stick with "mult-racial" you'll have to come up with more to support that notion. Also, within the article there appears to be an incorrect statement about black Northern Rhodesians "willingly" volunteering for combat service. The reference states that chiefs came under considerable pressure to supply tribe members to the unit, and that for the member of the tribe (under that chief) there "was no thing such a volunteering". So that needs to be cleaned up. So let's start there at the moment, and see where we get. Gulbenk (talk) 20:27, 3 July 2020 (UTC)

• It's in the Stonebooks source where it says there were 20 europeans (Not that they were all officers) and that they european reserves were mobilised and integrated to the existing foce. Also, where is your proof of the chiefs pressganging the natives into it @Gulbenk:, when there is a source in the Country Study one which says "recruiters had no trouble filling the ranks with African volunteers"? The C of E God Save the Queen! (talk) 21:17, 3 July 2020 (UTC)

You can find that in the article Lunga's Contribution Gulbenk (talk) 21:22, 3 July 2020 (UTC)

You do realise that's talking about the African porters in the First World War, before the NRR was founded? The C of E God Save the Queen! (talk) 21:25, 3 July 2020 (UTC)

So the math I was using went something like this: The Regiment was actually Battalion size (1st Battalion) at inception (when those 20 whites are references). A Battalion of 400 enlisted is likely 3 companies, with the following officers: 1-Lt. Colonel 3-Captains 12-Lieutenants (one for each 30 man platoon). Maybe a major and perhaps an extra Lieutenant or two if my math is off. That leaves either zero or nearly zero whites to form your multi-racial Regiment. I see where you are right about WWI porters (I certainly misread that), but I just can't get past the other at the moment. Your input here is appreciated. Gulbenk (talk) 21:52, 3 July 2020 (UTC)

Zambia: A country study (your reference #6) confirms that there were 20 white officers and NCOs and 400 black enlisted, 1939. Pretty solid assumption that it was that same sort of arrangement 1933-1938. Compulsory service for whites, starting in 1940, complicates matters. The reference does say that troop strength increased as a result, but makes no mention (whatsoever) of "multi-racial" (and by that I mean both black and white enlisted men serving in the same unit) units within the NRR. It does say that during the war years there was (at least) one all-white unit. So while there is certainly the possibility that "multi-race" units may have been formed in the NRR, the only solid statements that we have are units of enlisted blacks with white officers and NCOs, and an all-white unit. So your hook is not holding up at the moment. Perhaps I've missed something you can point me to. If not, might I suggest you come up with one (or better two) alternative hooks. Gulbenk (talk) 01:59, 4 July 2020 (UTC)

If you think the multi racial part isn't holding up, then we could just simply drop it and do:

• ALT1 ... that the Northern Rhodesia Regiment (badge pictured) was a British colonial regiment with the motto: "Different in Race, Equal in Fidelity"? The C of E God Save the Queen! (talk) 05:43, 4 July 2020 (UTC)

Review follows: article 5x expanded from 3 July; article exceeds minimum length; article is well written and cited inline throughout to reliable sources; I didn't pick up any overly close paraphrasing from the sources I checked. ATL1 Hook looks good. Gulbenk (talk) 03:55, 5 July 2020 (UTC)

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